Tuning Chips - DPChip, Dtronic, Tunit, Rapid, Steinbauer & More.

[DeepThought]

HDJ105,
I may not have the most comprehensive knowledge of diesels and I'm still learning, but a 1KZ-TE engine has electronically controlled injection I believe. Otherwise the chip would be nothing more than a pretty ornament with a flashing yellow light. Hence my statement of my beliefs of what the unit it doing to the timing and length of the injection pulse must hold true. If that's not the case then what do you mean by it not being that type of electronically controlled injection?

With regard the 3/4 and black smoke. There is only a little black smoke at 3/4 and just a little more at full throttle but not so much as those behind can't see were they are going. It's not really a problem I am just a bit fussy with the price of diesel and such is all, don't like seeing any of it unburnt coming out the back.

Regards
D.T.

[DeepThought]

Corbypatrol,

Available from a number of outlets check their website at http://www.dpchip.com

Cost for mine was $1320 from TJM Maroochydore and I think that is pretty standard. I believe that the PooTroll uses the same unit but with different information programmed into it.

Regards
D.T.

[HDJ105]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

HDJ105,
1KZ-TE engine has electronically controlled injection I believe. Otherwise the chip would be nothing more than a pretty ornament with a flashing yellow light. Hence my statement of my beliefs of what the unit it doing to the timing and length of the injection pulse must hold true. If that's not the case then what do you mean by it not being that type of electronically controlled injection?

The 1KZ-TE has mechanical injection pump and injectors, with electronic control to replace the accelerator cable and to control other engine functions and emissions.

With common rail injection, along with petrol EFI systems, the injector is opened by applying power to the injector itself, basically the longer the duration power is applied the more volume of fuel passes through it.

With a standard mechanical diesel injector, it is designed to allow a quantity of fuel to pass through it as long as that pulse of fuel is delivered above the injectors set pressure. Once the fuel pressure drops away the injector closes again.

All I was trying to explain, was that the DPchip (or any "chip") only controls the injection pump, telling it to deliver a greater quantity of fuel to the injector, it has no direct control of the injector itself (as opposed to the later piezo injectors on common rail systems).

Sorry if you think I was being critical, that wasn't my intention. You asked for info, just trying to share some knowledge.

[corbypatrol]

$1300 is that for the adjustable knob 1 - 9 setting chip? That seems OK. As for the pootroll never heard that one before. NOT.

[DeepThought]

No offence taken here just trying to get a better understanding of what is going on here. So even though the injectors are not the electronic type as used in common rail systems, is not the injection pulse from the pump electronically controlled and hence forth the timing of that pulse controlled in the same way?

Regards
D.T.

P.S. I'm hoping that I'm not the only one getting a better understanding of these systems from this discussion.

[DeepThought]

Corbypootroll,
Yes I'm pretty sure that all DPChips have the adjustment on them but I'm not sure if they all have the USB connection for changing the internal parameters of the unit. Go to their website and look up your make and model of vehicle and see what they have. OH crap I'll do it for you................. A DP34 is what your after and that is the same as mine so yes it does have adjustments on it.

Regards
D.T.

[mud000]

The mai reason for the 9 differant settings is every 4b is differant you can adjust it up when its blowing too much smoke you've gone to far If you want to take it further you can but they will need your 4b to do that the sky is the limit
I had mine checked by toyota in albury & there test computer cant pick up that its been installed even though they know its there
The main reason I like the DP Chip over the others its adjustable & reprogramable so as i mod my 4b i can keep getting the most out of it
Chees Dan

[DeepThought]

Dan,
Yeah we get that part about the adjustability, but what were talking about is how the unit improves the performance. What it actually does to the electronics and the mechanicals to achieve the quoted results. What inputs it uses and how it alters the outputs to the fuel pump. Also the concept of just turning up the switch to the next level seems a bit primative without knowing what else is going on in the engine, that's why once I've finished my snorkel mod I'll be gettin it on a dyno to get it tuned.


Regards
D.T.

[quick60]

D.T.,

A quick lesson in diesel tuning (as you mentioned you are just learning), black smoke means overfuelling, or unburnt fuel, overfuelling means excess heat, which means a shorter engine life through heat damage and soot related wear with oil contamination.

I think the point I'm trying to make here is having a dial to adjust the power is a crude electronic fuel screw. The chip needs to have independant control af ALL timing, meaning it can adjust the timing to a + or - at the same revs, and at the same fuel load, depending where the engine is in its state of load (ie either just coming on to load or settled into the job). There is an optimum setting for all situations, and by making the engine it's most efficient at any point in the rev range, with infinate variables in load, will give you the most power gains. By simply turning a screw and increasing the fuel load will not guarantee the best results, in either power or efficiancy.

I too have had the Safari high output kit added to my 100 series, which comprises a D-Tronic, bigger exhaust and bigger intercooler. The power increase is awsome (dyno shows about 50% atw in 3rd gear), with huge gains off the mark and endless power all the way to illegal speeds. The original factory settings gave me some smoke at full throttle, and at low revs before things "happened", but the new setup has no smoke at all, anywhere in the rev range or at any load, meaning, it's air/fuel ratio is far better, and is giving masses of additional power while maintaining engine reliabilty and increasing fuel economy. How it does it is very well explained on the LCOOL site the HDJ105 mentioned (http://www.lcool.org/technical/elec_...g/tuning.html).
It's a good read, and will advance that technical knowledge you're after.

[DeepThought]

Quick60,
Yep I read the article at lcool before I got the unit, and no it is not specifically talking about a Dtronic but the gammit of tuning chips and more importantly what to look for in a good one.

Also the black smoke is only when the boot goes in not all the time, as the revs come up the smoke goes down (go figure). Yes it is from unburnt fuel. Yes I know about advancing the timing of the injection pulse and retarding the timing as well to reduce turbo lag. Yes the DPChip does all this via an internal fuel map. Also I've got a 3" exhaust from the back of the turbo and a high flow air filter and a snorkel that will have its inlet path modified shortly the intercooler is standard on the Prado. As far as anyone can tell me, my injectors are working fine and I've changed the fuel filter as required. There is not sufficient excess exhaust smoke to say that there will be engine damage from excess heat. No I don't have a pyro yet but that is why I'm getting the thing on a dyno with a pyro on it. They will set it up to optimum. I'll fit a pyro as the cashflow will allow.

The one thing that no one here on the forum can say with any certainty, I believe, is that the adjustment in the settings on the unit is adjusting fuel volume only. I don't believe that is the case. The adjustment switch alters the parameters of the fuel map used, i.e. both volume and timing. But again I don't have any evidence of this as yet. The guys at the tuning shop I will be going to have a vast amount of tuning knowledge and the right software for the DPChip, so I'll be getting in their ears for more information. I'll post that info when I have it.

Regards
D.T.

[quick60]

OK, no worries, I got the impression it's smoky all the time. The reason the smoke is only at the begining would be that it supplies excess fuel off bost to get the turbo to spin up quicker from extra exhaust flow, then when there's boost, the fuel ratio is correct and governed by the pressure sensitive fuel aneroid, so all sounds good.

[ats4x4dotcom]

DT, are you now understanding that to add more fuel via the "electronic fuel set screw" you have, you have to adjust timing automatically, because the injector has to stay open longer to let more fuel in, so what you have, is more fuel added to make it go harder, and the timing adjusted by default, not controlled timing adjustment........

[DeepThought]

Yes,
Darren I've heard your opinion I understand with what you are saying, but I don't necessarily agree with it yet. Also you may admit you are biased against the unit due to previous dealings with the company, I understand that too. However should I discover that you are correct I will be taking issue with the manufacturers regarding their advertising of the product and making certain demands of them. I'll also shout it load and clear for all to hear so that everyone will know exactly what is happening with the unit.

However until what they say regarding their product is "proven" to be incorrect I will bide my time for the moment and go and see the independant tuning guru for the info.

Regards
D.T.

[HDJ105]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

I'll also shout it load and clear for all to hear so that everyone will know exactly what is happening with the unit.

That's the spirit DT! An independant test at last.

As a matter of interest, Andrew from Berrima did have many posts in a few threads here on this forum regarding the tunit. However when he stopped distributing them, he asked for all his posts to be removed, and they were but not by the "moderators".

[ats4x4dotcom]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

Yes,
Darren I've heard your opinion I understand with what you are saying, but I don't necessarily agree with it yet. Also you may admit you are biased against the unit due to previous dealings with the company, I understand that too. However should I discover that you are correct I will be taking issue with the manufacturers regarding their advertising of the product and making certain demands of them. I'll also shout it load and clear for all to hear so that everyone will know exactly what is happening with the unit.

However until what they say regarding their product is "proven" to be incorrect I will bide my time for the moment and go and see the independant tuning guru for the info.

Regards
D.T.

ya pays ya money, ya makes ya choice, only bias here comes from using the products, even on my own vehicles, but go ahead, spend your money, and learn from what you spend, you already know what your suspecting, just not ready to admit it yet.......

So when you do learn what you need to know, and shout it out loud, as you state, how do you think you would pass on what you learned to someone who wont, [not cant] understand?

[DeepThought]

Darren,
I think your position at the moment is currently in the minority. But I'm not saying that your wrong just that you have not proven anything. And your quite vehement about your stance on the issue, fair enough that's your right too. But I'm now getting a sense of animosity from you, now if that is the case then it's not warranted, I'm only looking for information not a fight. There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate as long as there are facts to back it up. That's what I'm interested in the facts of the matter. And as others have stated certain manufacturers are a little light on with the facts. That's all I have to say about that.

Nice shocks by the way

Regards
D.T.

[DeepThought]

Originally Posted by HDJ105

As a matter of interest, Andrew from Berrima did have many posts in a few threads here on this forum regarding the tunit. However when he stopped distributing them, he asked for all his posts to be removed, and they were but not by the "moderators".

HDJ105,
Yes I'm lead to believe that they tend to use the legals a bit readily, I don't know why that is I don't care, it indicates a trait of personality. It is not an indication of technical ability.

And I'm not one to shy away from the truth due to the threat of legal action. Should the results I find prove to be in conflict with the advertised & published information, then I'll say so. Should they confirm what is said then I'll say that too.

Regards
D.T.

[ats4x4dotcom]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

Darren,
I think your position at the moment is currently in the minority. But I'm not saying that your wrong just that you have not proven anything. And your quite vehement about your stance on the issue, fair enough that's your right too. But I'm now getting a sense of animosity from you, now if that is the case then it's not warranted, I'm only looking for information not a fight. There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate as long as there are facts to back it up. That's what I'm interested in the facts of the matter. And as others have stated certain manufacturers are a little light on with the facts. That's all I have to say about that.

Nice shocks by the way

Regards
D.T.

Well, if you read the LCOOL linked article it pretty much spells it out for you, but you arent accepting that, even after you installed one, and wondered how it works with the lack of wires, yet you say you want to tell everyone what you find, when you work it out.

What will make your discovery [which is already known by many] any more, or less believable, than the LCOOL linked item, written by people wo work on these things all the time?

TO put it in perspective for me, explain how you are going to seperate what you find, testing one unit, not all, that will help everyone more than the information you already have?

[DeepThought]

Darren,
A little information is dangerous. A lot of information is very useful. OK granted that you are more experienced at the units you are involved with. So can you say what the units are you sell and explain how specifically the units you sell alter the performance of the engine. Can you also do this without making a comparison to other particular brands.

Also can you keep the superior attitude to an absolute minimum as I and others are trying to learn about these things. I come here with an open mind to find out as much as I can. If you can't do that then please don't bother to reply, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to have an intelligent discussion. Should you not repond in an appreciated fashion then I shall not repond to your posts at all.

Regards
D.T.

[DeepThought]

Here is a bit more info on a DPChip for y'all. I'm no expert but this dosen't look simple to me and I reckon there is way more than $40 worth of parts.

The circuit boards are dual layer and sandwiched together. Have a look at the attachments for a better view of the unit. It all looks high quality manufacture, solder joints are not over done, no blobs of solder anywhere and a good connection on all pins.

Regards
D.T.