Custom front suspension on Patrol

[Patrolling Paddy]

Well I'm looking at making the front of my GQ flex some more.
Still in the design and planning stage, it will be a bolt in unit and I have a few things to think about in regard to linkage setup and clearances to other parts etc...
I am looking at either a custom '5 Link' or custom 'A Frame', gunna stay away from the 'X Link' style setup.
I know there is alot involved but this is where others ideas can influence the final descision.
I already have a couple of ideas on paper but not too sure which way to go.
Looking at trying to keep as much of it as possible standard parts, with Nissan bushes, and I don't want to weld or modify the chassis in any way. This way it can be removed at any stage or transfered to another vehicle with little trouble.

One thing that I'm not sure on is the pipe size for the arms. I am thinking of using 1 1/4 or 32mm pipe with a 5mm wall, this should give plenty of strength yet keep the OD down to about 42mm allowing clearance of all the std diff mounts etc...

Any thoughts or stories from someone who has been involved with this before or is in the engineering type game.

PS I am a mechanical tradie so it won't be a bodgey job.

Cheers

PP

[Z()LTAN]

make an xlink bro.... its so easy... im making 2 very soon. Its gonna cots me about $30 each to make, if that.

They work great coupled with 3rds 3way arms

lol i wish i could charge my friends for my work... id have millions!

[Phil M]

Gday Paddy.

A friend of mine made a custom coil set up on his hilux and used all standard toyota arms from various models which made it easy to get spares as theres plenty about(and cheap) that already have bushes in them. I'm not suggesting that you go with toyota but maybe use the same concept with nissan parts. He made his bracketry so that it had adjustments in it rather than adjustable arms.

Going this way can be a bit more time consuming but if you research the net and get all your lengths first you could develop a kit that could be marketed easily later and make you some $$$$$$$.

On another note why do you want to stay away from a x-link set up as I reckon if you spent a bit of design (beer drinking)time under your truck you could make a bolt on set up of one of these.(this is what I've been thinking of doing)

Am thinking of a x-link soon so I will be interested to see how this goes.

ps. how's it going in the pilbara these days I hear theres plenty of projects going on at the moment. I lived up there for a few years chasing $$$$$$ a couple of years ago but managed to get a transfer to civilisation but still miss the place. (I think its the people I miss rather than the place though)

Cheers Phil.

[Patrolling Paddy]

The main reason I am trying to stay away from the 'X Link' type setup is that it requires the mounts to be cut off the diff and then a pivot welded on the front, this means that it cannot be removed easily.
I agree that it is probably the easiest option but that's why this in the Hardcore section - why go the easy way?

I am trying to keep it so that it can be removed and or transferable between vehicles.

I have a spare diff housing from a GQ (not ever gunna put it back in cause the cv's a too weak and it has a narrower track) that I will sell later, but for now it is going to be my test bench cause all the mountings are the same GQ/GU and this will allow me to prove the setup before it goes into the car.
The biggest problem with trying to use any std arms in my setup is that they need to have the bends to clear the tie rod and wrap around to reach the front mount, unless you know of a vehicle that has this type of setup?

Although dollars will always come into the equation this is more about doing it myself and getting the satifaction knowing that I designed and built it and it works.

[Phil M]

Hey Paddy.

Yeah I suppose to make gusseted brackets to pick up above the diff and use straight arms is moving away from a transferable kit.

I've thought about similar designs and still haven't been able to think of a way to not have to mod the diff bracketry in some way. I think that a bolt on x-link set up would be the easiest set up to revert back to standard or transfer as you would only have to cut the front of the radius arm bracket off and if you wanted that diff back to standard you just have to weld a plate on similar to caster correction plate.

Probably as clear as mud but I can picture it. I've probably spent too many thinking/drinking hours under my rig. You're inspiring me to get my spare diff set up on the bench but I've been waiting until I can get a GU diff for the right price and grafting it into the middle of my cruiser diff. I want to do the graft, flip arm and X-link set up all at once but $$$ is an issue at the moment.

Keep the ideas coming and I hope this helps.

Phil.

[Patrolling Paddy]

It is good to throw idea's into the ring as it will help me, and I'm sure others too, make the most informed desicion possible.

I thought about going over the diff but the the springs are mounted there so it makes it very difficult.

I think I am going to make a plate setup (similar to castor correction) that will allow the front mount to stay as is but will extend the rear mount upwards. Utilising the rear mount in it's std position alows the diff to roll as the mount acts like a pivot point.

I will be making some 'model' pieces first to try to refine the idea's as much as possible before making a real life version, and then it should only be a matter of fine tuning for accuracy and strength when building the real thing.

Please keep the idea's rolling as the more we talk the more I can nut out the thing's I haven't thought of yet

[oondy]

You could make a 3 link + panhard setup.

you could put a control arm from the top of the diff, or middle of the axle, to the chassis rail - if you go from the top of the diff you can go to the inside of the drivers side chassis rail. Then remove the front bolts from the radius arms.....flexxy flexxy.

i've seen pictures of a real custom setup in america - it worked really well indeed

3-link front on FJ80 - IH8MUD.com Forum

cheers

OONDY

[Patrolling Paddy]

oondy, that looks awsome.
Not real keen on welding such a bracket but I might be able to use the concept and come up with something similar. Haven't read it through yet and could tell from the pics, but how does it go for sump clearance? I would hate to punch the diff bracket through the sump.

Cheers for the input

[oondy]

you'd have to check the sump clearance, but it probly wouldn't have to be such a tall bracket at all.

or you could just buy a wizard 5 link kit which is 100% bolt on. I could probably source one if you were keen.

cheers

OONDY

[Grimace]

Mate I will second/third the xlink motion.

If you want to make something bolt it such as a 5 link or an aframe your goin to have alot more dramas setting it up then a simple xlink.

and if you want even simpler, leave it stock, and just remove your leading pass side radius arm bolt when your offroad.

[Patrolling Paddy]

oondy, do you have a link for the wizard 5 link? I did a search but I didn't find them.
I have an idea in my head that I would like to use and the snake bolt on kit doesn't look like what I want (can't find pics of it ftted though), not sure if the wizard is similar.
Setting the geometry up to function properly is tricky and will probably take awhile and a couple of attempts, but I am stubborn.

Grimace, by removing the 'leading pass side radius arm bolts' do you mean the front diff mounted ones? wouldn't this allow for excessive roll in the front diff causing real bad steering control?

The concept of the x link is great but as said I will try to stay away and design something different for now (won't rule it out but I want to try this other setup first)

[oondy]

I think the "Snake Racing 5 Link Kit" is a Wizard kit.

They do work really well, and as long as you've got both sway bars on while on the blacktop and don't try to change directions in a hurry, they're alright to drive.

cheers

OONDY

[Grimace]

Originally Posted by Patrolling Paddy

Grimace, by removing the 'leading pass side radius arm bolts' do you mean the front diff mounted ones? wouldn't this allow for excessive roll in the front diff causing real bad steering control?

It will increase the possibility of bent diff mounts.
I was partially being sarcastic (as I personally wouldn't do it)
And by gawd you only remove one bolt, NOT BOTH :O

Cheers
Grimace

[Patrolling Paddy]

I was hoping you were being sarcastic.
I think I will build something to be a more permenant type arrangement rather than unbolt the radius arms. Although it would have a very similar effect as the x link would it not?

[cruiserpatrol]

You say you want bolt in so it is transferable, but surley you would take your gu diff and all with you and put back the gq diff. So x-link is only moding the diff you would take with you anyway wouldn't it?
Just my 2c worth.

Dave

[Professor]

Not sure if people are aware but the Xlink is now alot cheeper than advitised.

$650 including gst

If you have a spare diff just setup the XLink on the spare diff and take that with you when you part ways with ya rig!!

There is now an option for the flippa Xlink for your flip arm setups.

We have alot of happy customers now and many more comming!

Chad

[Patrolling Paddy]

$650 is not bad but it is still an x link. I am trying to stay away mainly cause I want a bolt in type setup and I would like to make something myself, just to see if what works in my head actually works in practice.
If I have no luck comming up with something of my own then I may look at an x link.
Just out of curiosity how is a 'flippa' done on a Patrol with the spring mount where it is? Is the spring mount moved somehow?

Cheers for the intrest too guys, I will keep you up to date as it progresses.

PP

[sudso]

Originally Posted by Patrolling Paddy

Just out of curiosity how is a 'flippa' done on a Patrol with the spring mount where it is? Is the spring mount moved somehow?
PP

I've looked at that too. There is just enough room to squeeze the arms in there but they'd be damn close to the chassis rails at full flex.
How is flipping the arms going to make it flex better without additional mods anyway?

[4runner8]

Originally Posted by sudso

I've looked at that too. There is just enough room to squeeze the arms in there but they'd be damn close to the chassis rails at full flex.
How is flipping the arms going to make it flex better without additional mods anyway?

yeah, what is the advantage of flipped arms on ptrols and cruisers?


good luck paddy, am trying to think of something different for the runner too, although it obviously won't be bolt in. am keen to see what you decide, thats for sure

good luck

[Z()LTAN]

Originally Posted by 4runner8

yeah, what is the advantage of flipped arms on ptrols and cruisers?

better under diff clearance, and a poor mans way of getting better radial arm angle.